it sure is awful quiet around here...
I hate to be defined by sex, but how do you deal with others misunderstanding of gender with little definition?
I was a very androgenous teen, and when I changed schools in 9th grade I caused some disturbance by letting some think I was a genetic girl. A few of the girls were quite upset. At least I didn't get beaten up at that school, I just couldn't get a date. :-P
Teens are of course the MOST conservative people, having no life experience to speak of, but it made me wonder about why people have so much need to define a person's gender.
Many people could imagine being the opposite sex, but few can imagine asexuality (and some fantasize).
What's your positition?
(now I just want to be hermaphrodite :D)
I hate to be defined by sex, but how do you deal with others misunderstanding of gender with little definition?
I was a very androgenous teen, and when I changed schools in 9th grade I caused some disturbance by letting some think I was a genetic girl. A few of the girls were quite upset. At least I didn't get beaten up at that school, I just couldn't get a date. :-P
Teens are of course the MOST conservative people, having no life experience to speak of, but it made me wonder about why people have so much need to define a person's gender.
Many people could imagine being the opposite sex, but few can imagine asexuality (and some fantasize).
What's your positition?
(now I just want to be hermaphrodite :D)
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Re: Is gender nonspecific the same as androgeny?
Mon, March 28, 2005 - 9:02 AMI don't agree that teens are the MOST conservative bunch, me still being a teen, I have found tons of acceptance, at least for being gay among teens.
I've also come out as genderqueer to teens, gay and straight and found no intollerance.
About this notion of Gay. I agree that queerdom is too complicated to be the result of genes alone. I like the idea of being genetically predisposed to be a radical. :)
But I actually think it is true. Many gay and otherwise queer people are the people who do not fit into the usual bonds of existence, or else how would such a large percentage of famous people have been somewhat homosexual?
I basically use the term queer to emcompass everything odd about my sexuality and gender. Sometimes I like guys, but feel like a guy, so I am genderqueer and gay, sometimes I like girls but feel like a girl, so I am a lesbian and queer, sometimes I like girls and feel like a guy so I am again genderqueer, sometimes I like guys and feel like a girl, so I am queer because of all other times.
The only thing I am not, is straight.
Oooh....I wanted to be a hermaphrodite when I was a little girl. I thought, "Why can't I just have both?"
You remind me of odd fantasies...I had this spell that turned people from one gender to another. Oddly enough, I had never even heard of hermaphrodites, intersexuality or transgenderism and had never even thought of sexuality -
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Re: Is gender nonspecific the same as androgeny?
Fri, April 22, 2005 - 7:33 PMI have a question...
Why does the need for androgeny make me feel so ... crazy?
It's been a year now that I've been actively trying to figure this out, and many years that I've had this lurking in the back of my mind... -
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Re: Is gender nonspecific the same as androgeny?
Wed, June 29, 2005 - 8:51 AMIt is very refreshing to see a good number of teens, young adults and adults being so care free about "gender".
There is no "role" to play in life-- there is only a way of "being" in life. Is something I always say to myself to remind me that I have a purpose and that I have much more to learn.
I am a transgendered individual, however most of the times I really wonder if I even fit that definition anymore because I'm such a "radical". I have chosen to not undergo surgery and not take any hormones simply because since dressing as a female everyday, working and living, that people simply accept me for "me".
My "being" doesn't offend anyone and I attract much more positive things into my life than negative with the way I live my day to day life. So I'm among the fortunate ones.. I know of too many transgendered individuals of previous generations and some even of my own generation, go through a lot of pain and grief.
Times have changed and I have smartened up!
Although I am very free-spirited and fluid minded, I still can not grasp fully the idea of "gender non specific".. To me my gender is quite important because it is "who I feel I am" on the inside and so my outside totally reflects it and expresses it fully. I definitely feel "female" and I definitely identify with being female. I have simply adapted my body to my mind and spirit I guess is what I'm trying to say.. The way my body moves and my mannerisms are all very natural to me and do not feel forced.
I do not have shape shifting abilities to feel male or female upon impulse when I'm with or attracted to a guy.. I am a "straight" woman when it comes to sexual attraction I am very much attracted to males.
On my journey there have been many interesting questions and ideas from people that I found helped to strengthen me and solidify who I am.. A really common question is:
"If you feel really feminine and you don't want to have surgery or anything and you were born with male parts and you are only attracted to me.. Doesn't that make you a fem-gay?"
My response to that is a smile and then a burst of laughter! It makes me feel really good inside that to some people I am such an enigma -- I love it!! *Hahahahahaaa*.
First of all, I do not feel very feminine; I am feminine. Why have surgery when you have "magic". *Winks*. I love my male parts so do the guys I have ever met and non of them who have been with me were gay or turned gay. I am not a "fem-gay" becaues I do not identify with that way of being and the lifestyle.
Living life the way I am and being just the way I am has so far been a really really interesting journey. I witness the most amazing sides of people when the topic is brought up, especially with men. Women find it the hardest to understand I have found, they are deeper thinking. Men just think with their penises, I guess that is why! *Hahahahahaa*. There have been a lot of men who have really open themselves. I can accept that perhaps my being transgendered opens mens up to their homosexual being? That they can explore that side of themselves more comfortably with a transgendered person than a feminite gay man?
Mind you I don't go up to every guy out there and say hey theres a surprise coming! I'm quite opposite. Depending on the guy and how comfortable he makes me feel and how insightful and mature he is about all the topics I bring up, I don't actually share that with anyone for a period of time.. Ofcourse 9 times out of 10 people already have assumed anyway so, less work for me yay!
I get to just concentrate on being me and people are perfectly fine with that -- so thank you. -
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Re: Is gender nonspecific the same as androgeny?
Wed, October 26, 2005 - 7:19 PMYou are incredibly beautiful. I wish I could hear your music too. I am a Masculine, with a female body. I have chosen not to use hormones or surgery either. I am also a musician--guitar and cello. I live in western Massachusetts. I hope that you can come here and play your music someday.
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Re: Is gender nonspecific the same as androgeny?
Wed, October 26, 2005 - 7:42 PMI have fought for gender freedom myself. What I'm about to say may offend some, but it is only the result of my own struggle. I am a Masculine, with female parts. For years I have struggled with my gender issues. For several years, I made friends with 'transsexual' women. They were loving, caring people and good friends of mine--still are. I tried to think of myself as a transgender "boy" or "man", but it never fit. Nothing fit--no labels or identities every really worked for me. I also tried to work out my gender issues with FTMs--female to male transsexuals or transgenders. This was a very painful and frustrating experience.
Unfortunately, I spent many years in "tranny land." I tried to adopt the transexual ethic, lifestyle, identity, whatever. I now call it "the tranny system." The tranny system has been constructed entirely by the medical regime, to make you "pseudo" normative, to fit into one gender or another. It has been adapted for voluntary use by transgender people. But it still operates like a system, even when used voluntarily. People in the tranny system all say and do the same things. They all go through the same homogenous process of getting psychiatric letters, getting hormones and surgery, transitioning, passing, and builidng a whole lifestyle, subculture based on those facts.
When I participated in the tranny system, I felt like I was going through a machine. I didn't feel like an individual. There was so much pressure from FTMs to conform to their ideas, adopt their identities and practices, spout their political beliefs, mimic their culture.
I wasted alot of years in tranny land, struggling with and against the tranny system. In the end, it didn't help me resolve my gender issues. It only prolonged the painful process. This year, I began to mentally extricate myself from the tranny system. I stopped thinking of myself as "trans." I withdrew from transgender email lists and support groups. I have given up the search for support from trans groups, save for these forums.
I once went to a gender queer group in NYC, which was the best group I ever participated in. But I found out that most of the members of the group went on to transition and become FTMs, so they re-formed as a "transition group". The gender queer group as such no longer exists.
This is a very lonely, hard, individualized path. You get no support from people in the tranny system. In fact, they resent you, make fun of you and castigate you behind your back.
When you have gender issues, you are presented with two models: the heteronormative system, and--as the only alternative--the tranny system. If neither of those work for you--tough luck. There is no other place to go. You are left to struggle on your own.
When I try to set up support groups for gender queers, for people seeking gender freedom, they are so confused. They feel they have to pay homage to the tranny system and obey its rules, even if it really doesn't work for them. It's impossible to get any support this way. I've learned that if you want to live as a gender queer, in gender freedom, you're best doing it on your own. -
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Re: Is gender nonspecific the same as androgeny?
Mon, November 28, 2005 - 10:25 AMRight on Stevie!!!
Even my former doctor had this really confused look on her face, when I said "Yeah the hormones are working great, but my cock won't work" She was like why do you care if it does or not don't you want to be a girl. My answer was sort of, because if I said no I just want to be me, I had a very real fear she would cut off my estrogen pills(pills that I love by the way) I replied to her, I want to be someone who looks like a women, but has a nice cock between her legs. That was a few years back, the doc I have now understands my fluid gender identity, and realize that hormones make me happy and are an end with in themselves. The whole Tranny System you described is so true, I even know trannies who state "after I get surgery I am no longer a TG, no longer a part of the community" I call that a delusion, the only members of the TG community I seem to be able to get along with are a few girls who care not about surgery, but about just looking fabulous, whose only care in the world is the clothes they are buying not what they call themselves. I'm a Gender Queer, and if there was a third neutral pronoun that was in everyday use I would use it, hell I prefer It over he or she, but people say that is insulting. Using either of those is insulting to me.
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Re: Is gender nonspecific the same as androgeny?
Mon, January 2, 2006 - 12:12 PMHey, y'all!
I just stumbled upon this tribe today. Wish I'd know you were here a couple months ago! Anybody still around?
I loved what both Stevie and Monika said about the "Tranny System". Ugh! I hate it too. Fuck Harry Benjamin and his so-called well-meaning "Standards"!
I'm with Monika on her "I just want to be me" way of thinking. I really liked your answer to your doctor, "I replied to her, I want to be someone who looks like a women, but has a nice cock between her legs." That's bloody brilliant! And, fortunately for me (and my lovers) my cock is still working rather well, thank you :) (Although I have rearranged its function quite a bit. I use it much more like a giant clitoris or a strap-on.) I also never went through the all too common "MtF penis loathing" either. I'm fairly happy with my sexuality. And yes, the hormones really help to keep me happy and centered in my body, but I'm not really "going anywhere" with all of this.
Okay, there's a start...
~Jessa~ -
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Re: Is gender nonspecific the same as androgeny?
Fri, January 6, 2006 - 9:08 PMhey, i just recently stumbled upon this tribe as well, so if anyone, hopefully you're around. i think that's so awesome that you can express your sexuality such that you do since there is such a push to become "female" (whatever that is if not just a bunch of stereotypes) if you're an MTF, or vice versa, demanding you become "male" (whatever that is, once again, if not just a bunch of stereotypes) if you're an FTM. in that sense, i feel like the trans movement is almost an enforcement of the gender binary system since it still separates the two (and apparantly only AND opossite) genders. so ya, just wanted to say rock on with yourself!
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Re: Is gender nonspecific the same as androgeny?
Sun, February 5, 2006 - 10:15 PMi also for the past few years (and longer when i realize my youth's struggles) have been struggling with my gender role...i am a female-bodied queer and have played with my "male' or masculine persona, yet never feel like a "man" when i am in drag, but i have now come to think of "girl-clothes" as drag...i am getting more and more confused, yet also exploring more possibilities than the typical diagnosis of a "man trapped in a womans body". i have many trans friends and trans ally friends and i have talked with them extensively on their experiences and identities, and it seems that most have gone through the system and have fully transitioned...i know only a few people who do not have clear intention of transitioning. i feel androgynous and sometimes asexual, and i have so few peers in this position. it is so refreshing and inspiring to come upon this page where there is discussion of something different, fluid and ever-changing. i am happy for the most part in my body, and i feel that my body is also trans/androgynous, and i need my masculinity and queerness to be recognized by partners and friends, as well as validating my faggy feminine self. i am trying and beginning to understand how i fit within my body and my sense of self. it is confusing to people(and to myself) trying to understand androgeny, when we grow up in a binary world and have few or no models for ambiguity, exploration, strangeness or difference. thanks to y'all for exploring, expressing and sharing!!! hopefully with other happily ambiguous genderqueers as role models,less and less people will have to mold themselves to the binary system in order to get what they need to be themselves.
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